Curse

Mared Text · Mar 02, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

This post is to describe my suggestions on fixing useless or subpar (when compared to other options) skills in guild wars. When suggesting a fix for a skill I prefer to simply alter the cost, durration, and damage of the skill rather than changing the effects, the reason for this is that I think anet is more open to altering easy to change things such as cost and cooldown than altering how the skill works entirely. If anyone knows if the dev's actually read these forums please let me know. These skills are in no particular order.

Warrior
Skull Crack {e}
Option 1.) Lower Skull Crack Addrenaline cost to 4.
Option 2.) Skull Crack applies dazed condition no matter when you hit them.

Mesmer
Chaos Storm
Reduce spell cast cost to 5 energy. Decrease spell cooldown time to 15 seconds.

Necromancer
Well of Power {e}
Reduce cost to 5 energy. Well lasts for 45 seconds at 16 blood.

Elementalist
Swirling Aura
Reduce cost to 5 energy. Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds.

Ok thats all the skills I have time for today. If you want to know why I suggested a change for a skill in the manner I did feel free to ask, I just didn't have time to explain my reasoning for each change at this particular moment.

Ken Dei · Mar 02, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Skull Crack: I don't use it, but then niether has anyone els ei've evr met, obviously subpar.

Chaos Storm: Maybe, and Maybe.

Well of Power: No way, it's an Elite, fine, but lowering the casting cost to 5 is crazy. And I use the thing. What I WOULD like to see is a slight reduction of casting time, like 1/2 to 1 second, and maybe last a bit longer too.

Swirling Aura: Yeah, a sad, sad, little skill....

007Bistromath · Mar 02, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Well of Power: No way, it's an Elite, fine, but lowering the casting cost to 5 is crazy. And I use the thing. What I WOULD like to see is a slight reduction of casting time, like 1/2 to 1 second, and maybe last a bit longer too.

What I'd like to see is Bloodstained Boots get fixed, but I think my dad is probably going to buy me a pony first.

chikorita23 · Mar 02, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Elementalist
Swirling Aura
Reduce cost to 5 energy. Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds.

I posted a thread last month, about how GW secretly tone down this spell from 75% evade rate to only 50%! (they tune it down around mid-Jan2006) Numbers of people were discuss the issue, Gaile Grey included. And she said she would post up the info of why GW suddenly change this skill when they promised not to adjust any skills for awhile. However, still got no further report from Gaile. And yes this skill is horrrible.... even Hydromancer like me don't consider using it now.

lyra_song · Mar 02, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mared Text

Warrior
Skull Crack {e}
Option 1.) Lower Skull Crack Addrenaline cost to 4.
Option 2.) Skull Crack applies dazed condition no matter when you hit them.

I'd be happy with the adrenaline cost as Disrupting Chop.

Mared Text · Mar 02, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Thank you all for your replies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Chaos Storm: Maybe, and Maybe.

Why maybe on this? Chaos storm is a useless skill as it stands now. I have never seen it ever used except in random arena and even there it is very rare to see it. With the buff I have suggested people would actually want to try it out now.... wether it actually sticks as a good skill to use is another matter. Also, the reason I suggested a change to it the way I did is because there is no skill in the domination line that costs 5energy (besides hex breaker) and I think variety is good.

Quote:

Well of Power: No way, it's an Elite, fine, but lowering the casting cost to 5 is crazy. And I use the thing. What I WOULD like to see is a slight reduction of casting time, like 1/2 to 1 second, and maybe last a bit longer too.

The reason I suggested such a large buff for Well of Power has several different parts too it. Unlike other elites, well of power requires an event to take place, someone has to die. Secondly, well of power has a 3 second cast time, even if someone does die it is impossible to get well of power off if someone is running any sort of corpse denial skill, heck, someone can even corpse deny you with a res sig at that cast time. If, in the event that there are so many corpses that the enemy can't corpse deny them all and you get well of power off... then you are either winning hardcore and well of power won't really change anything, or your losing horribly and well of power still won't change anything. Thirdly, with its long cast its very easy for a ranger to target you and inturrupt it, especialy since he knows exactly when your going to use it. Fourthly, Well of Power is simply owned by the enemy just moving away from it, granted, in some cases they can't move away from it, such as in tombs, but even without that you still have all the other ways, and in any other arena or match moving away from a well works wonders. To top this all off, even if you are in the well of power its not like you are invincible. Much harder to kill, true, but its still possible.

So all that said, there are essentialy 4 ways or so to stop someone from well of powering. As far as I'm concerned if you actually get well of power off by haveing someone someone die, if someone doesnt corpse deny you, if someone doesnt interrupt you, and if the enemy just doesnt move away from your position... then well of power should simply rock faces when it goes off. It should also last for an insanly long time.

If you really think about it, I seriously doubt that even with my suggested buff well of power will ever be used in hoh or in gvg. Corpse denial just kills it dead too hard.

Your idea to reduce the casting time to 1 or 2 seconds is good, if it is given that buff then I can live with the cost staying at 15 energy if the durration stays at 45 seconds. If the durration of Well of Power stays at what it is then it still won't be worth useing even with a reduced cast time. 21 seconds at 16 blood just is not worth it when the skill requires a corpse to be used and that recource can be denied. If the description of the skill had a slight addition tacked onto it such as "While in Well of Power all allies attack and spell damage is increased by 50 percent". Or something like that, then I would be happy with the durration at 21 seconds.

The thing you have to remember is that well of power should seem kind of overpowered compared to other elites because so many conditions have to be met for it to be used.

Skuld · Mar 02, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Well of Power is fine, Skull Crack hmm a little lower adrenaline might be nice, swirling aura needs inflating and chaos storm needs erasing

romO · Mar 03, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

if skull crack required so little adrenaline and could be applied whenever you wanted it to, then everyone would run skull crack warriors because it would be spammable and you just need one player to shut down condition removal. if you have four warriors, four or more casters are shutdown automatically plus you still have the warrior damage. it would become the new iway. i agree that its useless as it stands, but applying such a powerful condition without interupting seems like a bit of a risk which could have terrible consequences.

Mared Text · Mar 03, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

Well of Power is fine, Skull Crack hmm a little lower adrenaline might be nice, swirling aura needs inflating and chaos storm needs erasing

If you think well of power is fine you have been spending too much time puffing the peace pipe buddy.

Mared Text · Mar 03, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

if skull crack required so little adrenaline and could be applied whenever you wanted it to, then everyone would run skull crack warriors because it would be spammable and you just need one player to shut down condition removal. if you have four warriors, four or more casters are shutdown automatically plus you still have the warrior damage. it would become the new iway. i agree that its useless as it stands, but applying such a powerful condition without interupting seems like a bit of a risk which could have terrible consequences.

If you read my suggestion again you will see that I suggested lowering the addrenal cost OR making it appliable at any time. Not both at the same time.

zoozoc · Mar 03, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mared Text

If you read my suggestion again you will see that I suggested lowering the addrenal cost OR making it appliable at any time. Not both at the same time.

oh ok thats good, when i first read it i thought the same thing.

Siren · Mar 03, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mared Text

If you think well of power is fine you have been spending too much time puffing the peace pipe buddy.

No, if he (she?) thinks Well of Power is fine, it means he or she has been spending enough time with it. Your suggestions (especially regarding Well of Power) are asinine. 5 energy cost and 45-second duration? +2 AoE energy regen for 45 seconds, at a cost of a Reversal of Fortune? Be sensible. Use common sense.

Sol_Vie · Mar 03, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

No, if he (she?) thinks Well of Power is fine, it means he or she has been spending enough time with it. Your suggestions (especially regarding Well of Power) are asinine. 5 energy cost and 45-second duration? +2 AoE energy regen for 45 seconds, at a cost of a Reversal of Fortune? Be sensible. Use common sense.

/agree

WoP is fine. It's a great skill as is. It needs no nerfing or buffing.

Siren · Mar 03, 2006, 09:46 AM // 09:46

And plus, the reason people don't use Well of Power is not due to energy cost, nor is it due to duration. People don't use Well of Power because the energy regen benefits casters only, so for the casters to be able to use it at all, they need to be in the middle of combat, which is completely stupid. +2 energy regen just isn't worth the risk. If the Necro is also running Wards, like many N/E you see these days, then maybe Well of Power might be feasible, but even then, there are better Elites out there that don't require your casters to run in front of nearly everything just to snag a measly +2 energy regen.

And if Well of Power bothers you, don't use it. 99% of the playerbase already doesn't. Go with Well of Blood, Blood Rit, OoB and/or BiP.

Mared Text · Mar 03, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

No, if he (she?) thinks Well of Power is fine, it means he or she has been spending enough time with it. Your suggestions (especially regarding Well of Power) are asinine. 5 energy cost and 45-second duration? +2 AoE energy regen for 45 seconds, at a cost of a Reversal of Fortune? Be sensible. Use common sense.

I am being sensible, yes maybe my suggestions where a little high but even if my suggestions where implemented I doubt we would ever see well of power at all, simply because people would always bring corpse denial. If you had read more posts than just my top one you would have seen that I modified my idea somewhat when responding to Ken Dei.

Whens the last time you saw Well of Power in a serious top guild match.. or even in hoh by anything other than a newb team. I can count on 1 finger the number of times in the last month I have seen well of power in any arena at all, and I watch and play in alot of matches. If you guys had read my discription of why well of power needs to be way better than it is you may begin to understand why its not used at all.

P.S. Maybe you guys think that I'm talking about pve? All of the skills I talk about I'm refering to pvp balance, I really dont consider pve at all... mobs are so easy to kill that they could be wasted by a 1 armed baby so I really dont think pve balance is an issue at all.

Undivine · Mar 03, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Well I think you're wrong. PvE balance is an issue. When a place is too easy, it's tedious. When a skill is too powerful, it makes the other classes seem less useful.

However, I agree with you on Well of Power. From a PvE perspective, WoP is a crummy waste of an elite when you could be far more effective with a Well of Blood + Blood is Power combo. That +2 energy sucks.

5 mana is too low though. How about keep the mana at 15, make the cast time faster, and increase the duration? Or perhaps a faster cast time and +4 energy instead?

Mared Text · Mar 03, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Well I think you're wrong. PvE balance is an issue. When a place is too easy, it's tedious. When a skill is too powerful, it makes the other classes seem less useful.

However, I agree with you on Well of Power. From a PvE perspective, WoP is a crummy waste of an elite when you could be far more effective with a Well of Blood + Blood is Power combo. That +2 energy sucks.

5 mana is too low though. How about keep the mana at 15, make the cast time faster, and increase the duration? Or perhaps a faster cast time and +4 energy instead?

Ok how about 15 energy, 2 second cast time, 30 second durration.

Even modified in this manner I seriously doubt that it will be used. You have to ask yourself, do I really want to take this elite or will another one be better. Remember, the cooldown time on wells is not what it says it is, its the time between player deaths... that is if the corpse is not denied. Also, if the corpse is denied when you have already started casting, then you are basicaly spending 15 energy on nothing.

The +4 energy would probably be good, but like I said at the start I try to stay on things that I think anet would be able to change easily just by altering a few numbers. If the energy output of WoP is easy for them to change then sure. Maybe make it a variable so its +4 energy at 16 blood, +3 at 12 blood.

Mared Text · Mar 03, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

And plus, the reason people don't use Well of Power is not due to energy cost, nor is it due to duration. People don't use Well of Power because the energy regen benefits casters only, so for the casters to be able to use it at all, they need to be in the middle of combat, which is completely stupid. +2 energy regen just isn't worth the risk. If the Necro is also running Wards, like many N/E you see these days, then maybe Well of Power might be feasible, but even then, there are better Elites out there that don't require your casters to run in front of nearly everything just to snag a measly +2 energy regen.

If you had read more of my posts on this thread you would have noted that in one I suggested another option for well of power was to increase spell damage and attack damage by 50 percent.

Quote:

And if Well of Power bothers you, don't use it. 99% of the playerbase already doesn't. Go with Well of Blood, Blood Rit, OoB and/or BiP.

Well forgive me for trying to make a game a more varied and balanced place to play in. What I don't understand is the conflict between your apparent apathy toward the balance of skills in this game displayed by your suggestion of "If its bad don't use it" and your dedication to fighting against any suggestions that would make a skill more used.

You admit that the skill is underpowered by saying that no one uses it. Yet you argue against any changes I suggest to make it better. Do you just like to argue or what?

Siren · Mar 03, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mared Text

You admit that the skill is underpowered by saying that no one uses it. Yet you argue against any changes I suggest to make it better. Do you just like to argue or what?

Why does no-one use it? Consider why and then you'll see why it doesn't need to be changed.

Rarely do you see it in PvP. Why? Primarily Interrupts and Corpse Denial. You said that yourself. And then you also said that even with the "buff" suggestions, Well of Power still probably wouldn't see playtime in HA and GvG. So there, what's the point of buffing it in the first place if you yourself don't even think it'll be used?

We all know why Well of Power isn't used in PvP. Breaking the skill or "buffing" it isn't going to change why people don't use it, because people don't use it because it only gives a measly AoE +2 energy regen and requires a corpse to boot. No caster in their right mind would try to get in that WoP if that means going closer into the fray. A combination of WoB, Blood Rit, and BiP shats all over WoP in PvP because WoP is a PvE Elite.

So let's consider PvE. Try playing a Well Necro in the new Tombs (hell, play one in UW, too). Well of Power there in its current form is insanely powerful, almost to the point of being overpowered. Just think about it. You can bring Well of Blood, Well of Power, and Blood Rit, running at max Blood magic with AtB.

If you think the duration of the Wells (Power) needs to be increased, then you really need to try 18 Blood, or 19 if you snag the Blood +1 (20%) off-hand. Getting 23 second durations on an AoE, non-removable, +7 or 8 health regen and +2 energy regen is nothing to sneeze at, whether you're using WoB or WoP.

If anything, Well of Power is overpowered when played by a competent Necro in PvE.

It's always been crap in PvP, and always will be, and adding damage reduction to it is just asinine, because if you want to run Wards, go N/E and bring Wards. N/E is amazing for damage mitigation.

I'm disagreeing with you here because I've played Necro since before the game launched, and I know how Necro works. Learn how to play it better before you go saying something like WoP needs a buff. The very fact you're saying it needs a buff proves to me you haven't played Necro enough, and haven't really given WoP its proper playtime in its proper environment.

Mared Text · Mar 03, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Why does no-one use it? Consider why and then you'll see why it doesn't need to be changed.

No one uses it because it has too many conditions that need to be met for how powerful it is. If it had an appropriate power for how many conditions need to be met then people would use it more.

Quote:

Rarely do you see it in PvP. Why? Primarily Interrupts and Corpse Denial. You said that yourself. And then you also said that even with the "buff" suggestions, Well of Power still probably wouldn't see playtime in HA and GvG.

If you actually read my previous posts you will see that I believe reducing the cast time on it will make sure it sees more use since cast time reduction helps against both corpse denial and intruption.

Quote:

So there, what's the point of buffing it in the first place if you yourself don't even think it'll be used?

So instead of suggesting changes to it that will make it used and add variety and fun to this game you would rather just sit there and argue against any change at all to keep the game at its current status quo of usefull skills. Apparently your a troll.

Quote:

We all know why Well of Power isn't used in PvP. Breaking the skill or "buffing" it isn't going to change why people don't use it, because people don't use it because it only gives a measly AoE +2 energy regen and requires a corpse to boot. No caster in their right mind would try to get in that WoP if that means going closer into the fray. A combination of WoB, Blood Rit, and BiP shats all over WoP in PvP because WoP is a PvE Elite.

So let's consider PvE. Try playing a Well Necro in the new Tombs (hell, play one in UW, too). Well of Power there in its current form is insanely powerful, almost to the point of being overpowered. Just think about it. You can bring Well of Blood, Well of Power, and Blood Rit, running at max Blood magic with AtB.

If anything, Well of Power is overpowered when played by a competent Necro in PvE.

So now we finally get down to it, after digging through your posts we finally find out that you are a pve fanboi. Apparently in your close minded little world certain skills are for pve only and will never in any way shape or form be usefull in pvp. If someone tries to addjust the skill to make it more usefull for pvp WITHOUT SUBSTANTIALY AFFECTING PVE BALANCE then you will fight against it.

Lets examine my suggestions for wop and their effects on pve balance.
1.) Increasing well of power durration. Will this affect pve? No, because in pve once you have the first corpse from mob and use WoP a few other mobs will have died before the durration on the current WoP is out. So you just cast WoP again, since there is little to no inturruption or corpse denial to stop you, you can basicaly make and endless chain of the current WoP that last for a total of far longer than any durration buff they might recieve.

2.) Will reducing cast time affect pve at all? No, because there is little or no interrupt or corpse denial in pve the cast time of WoP really doesn't matter and will not change its power since you are pretty much guaranteed to get it off no matter what the cast time.

Once again you seem to just want to argue against any suggestion at all and your reasons are vapid at best. If you honestly believe that it is difficult to balance WoP for pve and pvp and that my suggestions are wrong, then I recommend that you step out into the world and join the rest of us in suggesting changes rather than staying in the troll realm where you simply argue against any suggested changes because your afraid of what might happen.

The fact is we know how WoP is right now, yes its fine in pve, but its not ok in pvp. Why not make changes that make it useable in pvp that won't really affect pve. Seriously man, get a grip.

Quote:

It's always been crap in PvP, and always will be, and adding damage reduction to it is just asinine, because if you want to run Wards, go N/E and bring Wards. N/E is amazing for damage mitigation.

I never said anything about damage reduction... once again I'm starting to think you just skimed the posts above this.

Quote:

I'm disagreeing with you here because I've played Necro since before the game launched, and I know how Necro works. Learn how to play it better before you go saying something like WoP needs a buff. The very fact you're saying it needs a buff proves to me you haven't played Necro enough, and haven't really given WoP its proper playtime in its proper environment.

And I'm disagreeing with you here because I'VE played Necro since before the game launched, and I know how Necro works. Learn how to play it better before you go saying something like WoP doesn't need buff. The very fact you're saying it doesn't need a buff proves to me that you haven't played Necro enough, and you haven't really given Wop Its proper playtime in all environments.